[Julian Klepacki]

Where i removed the under-padding from the front section of loor. It got destroyed in the removal.

Anyway, i have my jotun now, so i’ll consider my options and my direction with padding/sound-proofing whilst i complete the floor painting.

regarding the stitching, i get it. One thought though, stitching the citroen way, i’d think the second run of stitching from the upper-side throuh to the loose binding folded under is at risk of moving and messing up? Guess thats where the walking-foot comes into play?

Dunno, i’d be inclided to stitch the binding to the upper-side, fold over to the under side and then stitch from the under-side, keeping the binding taught as fed through the machine? using the foot as a guide at the folded-edge to keep parallel, plus shift the needle over to get a broader seam? Just thoughts? A practice of methods on some scrap carpet beforehand will likely dictate which way to go?

lots of options.

[Julian Klepacki]

ARB – anti roll bar? i geddit? cover is good, i do plan on refitting it.

understand about the carpet stiching. initially i thought, how can you stich the underside, without it becomingn visible on the top side. But you are doing it away from the edging, so it’s kinda camouflaged within the carpet. Providing thread is same colour as carpet? Or as pauls describes; stick through the edging again, but you only see one line of stiching for a neater finish, providing it’s parallel etc?

I may even already have a walking-foot that came with sewing machine, have to check.

Paul, did you get replacement cotton/hair padding for the floor pastie or manage to reuse the old stuff?
I may go for replicating it, but possibly use an updated material for the filling? Thinking the Plastozote closed-cell business?

i’ll ponder this lot whilst jotunning areas and messing with the rear screen.

Peter, i considered soldering the rivets, but though inevitably the plastic would start melting trying to get enough heat into it all? Drilling rivets out was very easy, a 3mm drill, spun just enough to take the rolled-edge off. i wanted brass M2.5, but could only get hold of zinc in time. It worked out well and easily dismantable as required?

Re-silvering the inners would be good, but don’t think any paint is avaialbe that doesn’t end up just like silver colour paint? I have seen some witchcraftesque ‘chrome’ affect paint on the interweb, but unsure of it’s reality? I have carefully stuck tin-foil into inners before with acceptable results?

[Julian Klepacki]

super! i don’t think that could have worked out better?

[Julian Klepacki]

Thanks for all the input.

Paul, regarding rear screen. No repairs to C-panels etc. But you made a good point on the upper-seal. I have changed it to one that looked in better nick than the original. It looks OEM, But it may not be? I’m going to remove it all, close compare, measure etc etc.

I did fit the original screen with the replaced upper seal and after seating the very lower-end of teh seal properly it fitted OK. I don’t have any strong memory or concerns about it, so conclude it was as expected?

Simon, i’m going to replicate what you did for the boot. I had seen your post before, but it slipped my mind. Exactly what i’m after. Can you expand on the stitching of the edging? I get stiching the edge, folding it over to hide the stiching, but how is the other edge stiched without it being visible on the other side? Is it glued?

Also what is the ARB & a Transome?

Regarding floor/underlays. Lots of ideas. I’ve not used jotun before, and nearly out of POR, i’m going to get some to try out. Reading about it ’90’ has replaced ’87’ and possibly the ‘Aluminium’ or ‘Glass’ refinforced stuff gives added protection/durability.

What about thinners/activator for it? Does it have to be the Jotun 17 stuff or can others be used?

i’ve got numerous sheets left of sound-deadening panels. The sticky-backet, foil-lined, tar/bitumeny type stuff. It all seems to be the same stuff whoever bought from; NK, DD etc? So i’ll just use that up.

Interesting to see in Paul’s photo the bulkhead & that cross-section carpet is sealed under the edging of the floor-covering.

Regarding the rear lights. Those bits shown above are the spring-contacts for the ground on the lamps & the links connecting the contacts together. Due to all being oxidised I had very high resistances and in a couple of cases open-circuit.

I simply drilled out the little brass rivets, cleaned everything up to clean metal, applied a little contact-grease to mating surfaces and used M2.5 machine screws to connect it all back up. I now have stable 0.5ohms measured between lamp ground contact and ground-lead.

the rubber cups were somewhat deteriorated and damaged. So i got some silicon end-caps off ebay. punched a little hole through the centre and they worked out ideal?

[Julian Klepacki]

Simon, yeah, that thermal compound/grease is mostly the same. like a white grease you see between semiconductors & heatsinks etc. SOunds like you are sorted there.

i think most of us are cut from the same cloth with regards to having to dick about with stuff. i bet as a child you took your toys apart to see how they worked soon after the initial novelty of playing with them wore off? i know i did?

anyway, look forward to seeing results of your endeavours.

[Julian Klepacki]

Thats as good as perfect? All you want is the main body really?

When i have done it before, not for a DS, but motorcycle oil-tank, in principle the same. i’ve filled the lower cylinder part with heat-sink-compound using a small 5ml syringe, helps keep contamination to a minimum from the upper part to get the best adhesion when you come to seal it.

you can get epoxy with thermal conduction properties, for potting electronics. 3M & Electrolube make it. But it’s not practicable, unless you are thinking of going into production and becoming a DS temp-sensor oligarch?

prep the bead/sensor; trimm the leads back and soldered a pair of tails for connection. slip some heatshrink over the tails, at least one if room is tight?

Then another sleeve of heatshrink over the pair of wires for strain-relief. At least an inch or so protruding from the body for some support or longer if a 2-core lead is preferred?

plunge the lot into the body, burying the sensor into the heat-compound. clean up if required around the upper internal. i used cotton-buds with acetone.

seal it up with something appropriate. i used silicon as i thought it would introduce some flex for the wires exiting the body. Also good seal and heat/contaminate friendly?

maybe you can re-use the top-cover, fill that with silicon too, wires coming out where the blades protruded or make a hole for the 2-core? let excess silicon ooze out for a proper seal?

if/when you get round to it, i can send you a syringe + heatsink compound, saves you buying? just let me know.

[Julian Klepacki]

Simon,
Thats fantastic outcome.
That Lucas unit looks to be a 2K NTC, as tables give a little over 2K4 at 20C & i suspect your temp is not a calibrated source, so ~2K5 @ ~20C looks cock-on?

apart from personal satisfaction, opportunity for tinkering, is it worth bothering trying to rebuild/repair an oem unit? if it doesn’t look odd with that 19mm hex in situ or your car isn’t concourse better than factory. does it matter?

i guess there is scope to machine down that hex as small as possible, maybe get close to 13mm AF?

I see no reason why a 2k2 ntc wouldn’t work, it’d be close enough?
But 2k ones are easily obtainable, so can make one as OEM?
mouser have lots of them.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/sensors/temperature-sensors/?product%20type=NTC%20Thermistors&resistance=2%20kOhms&srsltid=AfmBOoqn59vUPluJn3Cdlm6k6V1_TKM57HUEhy-zjai83h0cONVVXegG

Farnell have them too:

https://uk.farnell.com/c/sensors-transducers/sensors/temperature-sensors-transducers/thermistors/ntc-thermistors?resistance-25degc-=2kohm

The air-temp looks to be a 250 Ohm NTC, not so common, but out there.
link to temp/resistance charts, section 13.4.3:

https://jetronic.org/index.php/en/d-jetronic/72-troubleshooting.

your air-temp sens looks to be OK.

Oh, i also found out the NTC ‘II’ refers to the ‘second’ NTC, i.e. engine temp.
NTC ‘I’, is the other one, the air-temp sensor. nothing do with accuracy :/.

OK, thats my tea break over, back to working on the car (ds).
glad you got it sorted and identified an excellent source of alternative part, cheap as chips too.

[Julian Klepacki]

oh, let me add, the OEM sensor is simply a bead NTC encapsulated into an appropriate housing. So in theroy you should be able to make one as good as OEM.

In fact, if they are so difficult to find and expensive, i need to make some for myself?

Also, the sensor causes an elongated injector-pulse to give more fuel. So, as you say the higher-resistance equates to a perceived lower-temp resulting in longer-pulse and too rich mixture at normal temps, leading to the misfires and i guess eventual sooting up of plugs.

[Julian Klepacki]

i have some info on these, you are probably aware, but a lot of useful info is here:

https://jetronic.org/en/d-jetronic

I know it is a ‘thermistor’ of sorts, but they come in various ‘standard’ values based on the 20C temp, i.e. 5k, 10k, 25k etc.

i’ve dug out my bosch jetronic book to see what it had to say and in there it states it is a ‘NTC’ Thermistor, and refers to it as a NTC ‘II’. The ‘II’ almost definititely refers to the accuracy; 1%, 5% etc, But unsure of details, not overly tight accuracy by the looks of it.

lookign at the curve i have from info on the link given above it deviates more the lower the temperature:
10C 3k to 4k5, centre temp 3k7
20C 2k1 to 3k1, centre temp 2k4
30C 1k4 to 2k1, centre temp 1k65
40C 1k to 1k4, centre temp 1k1

NTC tables imply it is a 2kohm NTC. From 2k NTC tables, centre temp:
10C 3k68
20C 2k44
30C 1k65
40C 1k14

So it looks like a 2K NTC.
Other ‘std’ NTCs will be significantly different: 3k, 4k7, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k etc etc. So the 25C temp will be significantly off, yeah?

You can get very small ‘bead’ NTC’s for not much money from the likes of RS Components, Farnell, ebay, whatever.

I don’t think it’d be that difficult to make one in the absence of the real thing?
Certainly as an interim measure until you find OEM, if desired.

Buy a cheap sensor for the body, get two or three to experiemnt. Gouge out the guts, rebuild with new 2k bead NTC. I bet you could make one like OEM easy enough? Food for thought?
I have done similiar with resistance-senders to match up values for my own home-built guage(s)

if you do go diy route, get some heatsink compound to embed the senor into within the body for optimal heat transfer. it doesn’t cost much, again RS, ebay, whatever.

if you want photo of chart, tables etc let me know i’ll sort it out.
good luck with it.

[Julian Klepacki]

love it.

[Julian Klepacki]

Good job Paul.
What is the red handled tool? i take it used to create the right-angled edge, then get the ‘roll’ started?
Looks a useful hand-tool?
Also whats this business about wings for narrower tyres?
What are the distinguishing features of these compared to non-narrow tyre wings?

[Julian Klepacki]

yeah, thats what i saw. so i wasn’t dreaming after all.
good one.

[Julian Klepacki]

i recall when i saw that in the manual and thought no chance. based on my gaps, and what would be required to obtain one end would just move it out impossibly the other.

I have in mind, i saw another reference to body panels in my other manual, that did state a realistic gap of several mm, if not more?
i then thought, ah, thats more like it, and concluded what i prevkiously read, as shown above parallel within 2mm means within 2mm of being parallel, i.e. top is say 10mm and bottom is say 8 or 12mm?

but i may have dreamt that?

[Julian Klepacki]

Paul Burridge wrote:

….I’ve now got gaps of about 5mm to 6mm between between doors and the rear wing. Citroen say it should be “within 2mm”!!….

i thought i read the gap should be several millimeters, but within 2mm of each other.
Not the gap should be within 2mm?

This seems unrealistic to me?
I’ve not aligned/spaced my panels, as yet. But know a ~2mm gap will be impossible to reach.

google images of the DS. Every car shown, factoring in scale of the image will have gaps more like 10mm?
a 2mm gap would look almost non-existent in those images?

5-6mm gap? come the time, if i get that, i’ll be well happy.

[Julian Klepacki]

it is somewhat confusing.
i might revisit those ebay latches again after a mental break from it all.
for their cost they’re worth a punt?

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