[Adrian Simons]

Thanks for all your advice.
With regard to thee starter dog oil leak on our 1968 DS21 BHV, is there a vent hole somewhere (top surface ?) in the gearbox to equalise the inside volume to ambient ? I seem to remember something like a slotted grub screw there that we dared not fiddle with. If there is & this is blocked, then this might be a straw to grab !
Best,
aDRIan Simons (Isle of Wight)

[Adrian Simons]

Greetings again from the sunny Isle of Wight …. a status of the DS that have been entertaining us of late. :
As suggested by the forum, owner Michael & I removed both the air filter & the flame arrestor (?) under the dalek on the rocker cover & assessed engine operation at idle. There was no perceptible change in sound or the like.

I can report however, that although the engine had only been running for 10 or so minutes, there was “smoke” coming OUT of the darlek. This, & the large difference in pressure created using starter motor (all plugs out & throttle held down) between compressions suggests to me that we have one v. sick (No 1) piston/cylinder assembly.
With all three rubber the crankcase recirculation pipes removed, the engine revs audibly increased & an attempt to see if this provided the expected reduction in revs when the low running mixture screw was wound in tested. Although not stalling the engine (note the revs were now above the normal tickover), the revs DID reduce. I wound it back out about a turn & refitted the emission pipes. We confirmed that there was a suck on the taping into the inlet manifold but without a flow meter was unable to get actual l/min readings.
Our conclusion is that we believe the air being drawn into the rocker cover to wash out any escaped products of combustion when new would be high & this inward air flow diminish as the piston seals wear with age. Our engine has clearly gone past the null point after which more emissions are entering the crankcase than the inlet manifold has capacity to suck in.
We were going to remove the spark plug of our troubled No 1 cylinder to see if suddenly, the smoke from the emission tubes reduced significantly but didn’t bother & tried to end the day on a happy note … so we went for a drive … wonderful !
We didn’t attempt a wet compression test using say an egg cup full of oil but this may have been too much as the pressure gauge may have “hydraulic”, as the needle no longer returned to zero … woops. How much oil should one introduce … clearly less than we did !
Still got that engine oil leak from the bellhousing but have added a tin of “Leak Stop” & will add some STP Oil treatment or equivalent to thicken up the oil to hopefully seal the cylinder side walls a bit better.
Also checked the tappet clearances … all to book (6 thou ” inlet & 8 thou” exhaust) . We used the starter bar to turn the engine but after, the dog thing stayed in & there was a dribble of oil coming from it. Started then engine to kick out the dog but still an oil leak. We did fit a new O-ring here 100 miles ago so am thinking of sealing dog in situ with silicone rubber as this feature is rarely used … any thoughts ?
On the tappet clearances, would you advise the adoption of an extra couple of thou though as a result of modern fuels (as we do on 2cv engines) ?
Engine rebuild calling I think … unless someone out there has a great DX2 engine out there for sale!
HAVE A GREAT D-RALLY … with current wind levels, we cannot trust the large drip tray to stay put so have pulled out of such an opportunity to meet you all. One day …
Thanks for your continued help,
AdRIan Simons (Isle of Wight)

[Adrian Simons]

Peter,
Yep …. t’was me drowning in that ocean of gearboxes (a ‘gaggle of gearboxes’ shirley). Now cleaned of oily grime, they are now happily corroding in an old shed. Most unlikely will ever need them. let’s hope they will never meet that kangaroo named skippy in my lifetime … maybe I should Wight a Will. Would love to release into the wild again but le Deuche avec ailing gearboxes are rare here on the Wight.
I met another adrian … he is a tree surgeon … no NHS patience though …. mum’s the word.
Little 2cv talk in the CCC forum … prob coz they just work !
Yes aDRIan simoNs (Lake, Isle of Wight)

[Adrian Simons]

Mmm … more like an Oil Leak topic now I’m sensing.
Taken your comments on board to ponder. I was thinking … are there any pressurised oil channels that have core plugs or the like within the bell housing or elsewhere external to the engine where leaks could emanate from. Just a thought ?
Thanks again for help,
Adrian (Isle of Wight)

[Adrian Simons]

Such a wealth of precious information … THANKS.
The major itch is the oil leak. Said cover was fitted as a surely we thought a “nice to have” item and sadly, little thought was given at the time of fitting to the lengths of bolt used. The threads were already present.
The position of this thru-hole is clearly above the oil level but would leak when engine bits splash around in the sump oil. I would be tempted to remove the cover & insert the M7 bolt with a generous amount of JB Weld or equivalent. Would do it today but as only just refitted engine /gearbox, can still remember the challenges that confronted us BUT … within a month or so when all cuts & bruses have healed, a second time around would seem like a walk in the park ! I wonder if the whole hog is required to effect such a repair & that lifting 4″ or so in situ would do ?

Again, thanks for your feedback. It’s given us perspective in our amateur attempts to sort this beauty.
Best, Adrian (Isle of Wight)

[Adrian Simons]

Friends,
Michael is using the DS locally but oil drips are deposited emanating centrally from the engine-to-gearbox cover plate just in front of the crossmember.
What have we embarrassingly done wrong in our ‘hasty’ refurb I wonder ?
One thought was that to address a wobbly dip stick tube, we wiggled it out & used some black silicone sealant to hopefully achieve an oil tight interface with the iron block (which is now all nicely painted green). If we did not push it down sufficiently when re-building, then maybe we are being fooled into having too much engine oil in the sump & this would splash all over the place … and splash into our crankcase emission piston blow pass feed tubes to the carb air intake. These are our sorta symptoms.
QUESTION:
1) To assess whether we correctly inserted the dip stick tube, I would love to know dimensions from your DS21 vehicle of dip stick tube length as me reckons that too much oil might promote leaky symptoms … maybe.
– OUR removeable dipstick length from sump end to face that hits the dip stick tube flared end = 50.5 cm.
– OUR Dip Stick Tube length from flared outer end to where it enters the engine iron block = 31.0 cm
2) Michael & I refitted the sump with the short cork strip fitted in the groove that abutted the crankshaft. Great … simple … but there appears not to be an upper 180 degree equivalent seal above the crankshaft where it emerges into the bellhousing. Does the presence of the flywheel boss precludes the fitment of a conventional oil seal without dropping the crankshaft ? Maybe potential oil loss is minimised by a oil retrieving thread on the crankshaft …. it’s as if something like this is inherent in the design as I see no seal for this area.

– You suggest we might better sort other fish before concerning ourselves with the effect introduction of them nasty crankcase emissions into the carb intake. Surely it must create havoc to engine operation what with the resulting lowering of effective oxygen levels being breathed.
If we do have overly worn carb spindles, surely if we simply blanked that crankcase emission pipe that enters the carb inlet manifold engine side of the butterflies, then the engine would beneficially get nearer 21 % oxygen. Being naughty, if we dumped all the crankcase blow pass gasses to ambient, we would get better performance 0as I said … removing the pipe from the rubber filter to carb duck increased the rpm at idle significantly). Please Please …oh do check yours ! Maybe our engine is in need of replacement rings (minimum).

YIKES … maybe that engine oil leak is the least of our challenges !
Best
aDRIan Simons (Isle of Wight)

[Adrian Simons]

(Before George or Ringo offers help), Michael & I have attempted to learn from both John & Paul’s useful comments. I can now reveal the major cause of our hill start issue which I have hidden in my wordage below.
Carb Adjustment:
Still struggling on this one so apparently can’t expect an unadulterated BHV experience. I did squirt a load of Bradex Easy Start (other makes prob available) around the base & spindle areas to see if idle note changed … it didn’t. I did observe a bit of play in the primary spindle but none of the professional carb refurbisher we approached would commit to what play was acceptable.
Running Observations:
To simulate a lack of air inlet filter, we pulled off the rubber pipe that feeds crankcase emissions into the carb inlet via the 1″ filter to carb rubber duct port. The tick over revs notably increased whilst quite a bit of smoke stuff was seen belching out of the end of the removed pipe. Again, this is by design but how to assess whether outside acceptable limits. So would a worn engine be given a shot of extended life is this pipe was naughtily removed & allowed to freely vent to atmosphere ? I’m guessing that our engine is consuming “air” with an oxygen level less than the std 21% and continue to lower as bypass fumes increase. I wonder what piston compressions are considered acceptable ?
Hill Starts now possible:
John, Paul … you didn’t suggest to check that the rubber heater pipe hadn’t fallen from it’s retaining bracket that would foul the throttle linkage. We tied it out of the way & instantly we not only could we laugh at hill start challenges but also the car had so much more vroom on the flat (we were happy to enjoy a laid back performance).
OH PLEASE … NO … OIL LEAK on drive:
Clearly coming down from the engine/gearbox interface optionally fitted cover plate. The sump was removed & refitted with a instant gasket adhesive & a new 180 degrees felt rectangular sectioned strip that pushed nicely into the groove in the sump that abutted the flywheel boss. There is no leak from the sump to iron block interface where one van see aft of the transverse beam. What have we done wrong. My money is that the felt seal slipped round a bit when the sump was mated with the iron sump. Is it known to be critical to use silly amounts of goo in the ends of the felt “seal” where it interfaces with the flat surface ? We did not attempt to renew anything that might be above the boss as this would have meant crankshaft removal(?). Whatever the reason, it might seem that sump removal will be required. Is this an engine out … gearbox …flywheel off job ? Any words of hope out there like “this is normal, it will bed in and get better”.
Again you kind folks … any advice would be carefully considered.
By the way … the DS has never gone so well & so nice to have it on the road again where it belongs.
Thank, Adrain (Isle of Wight)

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