[Paul Burridge]

Some views inside my fuel tank: the filler neck entering the tank, the fuel line and breather entering the tank and the angled baffle on the tank floor. I really don’t understand how my tank has survived as it has. As per my previous post, it’s only had unleaded fuel in it – but that alone can’t account for the state of the tank in my post above can it?? Internally it’s rusted top and bottom.

[Paul Burridge]

My car is from 1968. it sat un-used for 15+ years and with a part filled petrol tank. I bought a new reproduction tank, fully expecting mine to be a sieve, but when i drained it i was amazed. it was rust free. Nothing other than clean 9stale) fuel came out of it.

I had wondered whether that was because it had held leaded fuel (less water?) but more recently i have decided that in some cases of rusty tanks, water is getting in through split filler neck hoses. I can’t see why else some tanks should rot so very badly? If my tank starts to ‘flash rust’ once i press it back into use, i’ll replace it with a reproduction straight away. I’m not going to waste time and money on filters and liners.

I’m buying some more sprung steel wire and will simply duplicate the float arm currently on the Jaeger sender, but then may bend the arm slightly to give me a reserve 🙂

This is what the inside of a DS tank can look like…….

[Paul Burridge]

I will concede that it’s an improvement though, and so I’m glad i bothered.

[Paul Burridge]

Phew! Fuel tank now painted and back in. Re-plumbing the fuel line and it’s outer rubber sleeve through the sill into the tank – and especially through the two grommets – was surprising fiddly.

The fuel line is sticking out of the bottom of the chassis. i want to be very sure before i cut it to length. I don’t want to cut it short, have it ride up and then fail to pick up the last 3 or 4 gallons of fuel in the tank.

On a related point, I’ve ordered a random cheapo fuel level sender with a plastic float that mimics the flat-bottomed shape of the Citroen/ jaeger cork original. Fuel penetrates the protective shellac and those floats become saturated or break up. I’ve also ordered some 2mm sprung steel to make a new arm. Once they arrive i’ll rig something up and check the empty/ full calibration before i fit it.

[Paul Burridge]

I just check my car. My regulator is under the inlet manifold (it’s a carb car). The bolt head is 12mm. Just loosen it half to one turn. Don’t fully remove it as you will more than likely lose the smll bearing that sits behind it.

[Paul Burridge]

Is that your prayer mat in the bottom of the photo 🙂

[Paul Burridge]

The slotted rod (with a lock nut against the bell housing) is the arm that the guide eye of the release bearing is intended to slide along. the implication is that your release bearing was intended to be one with the eye.

The release bearings with the eye go with the clutch fork that has two small holes on it’s fingers – to hold ‘C’ clips that hold the bearing in place. If your fork hasn’t got little holes for little C clips, and your release bearing hasn’t got an eye then i would do as you suggest: remove the guide rod (redundant), stick with the release bearing that doesn’t have the eye, but make sure you then use the big spring clip to hold the bearing to the fork. (see link below).

If you wanted to go ‘original’ and use a bearing with an eye…..The slotted rod is meant to be set at a specific length – long enough to guide the bearing but not so long that it gets in the way of the clutch. It’s meant to be between 94mm and 95mm lower than the face of the bell housing. (the face that joins to the engine) . The thrust bearing refit is covered by step 23 of Operation D.330-3 in section 2 of volume 2 of Manual 814. The procedure for refitting the gearbox doesn’t seem to warrant a mention in manual 814, but is covered (succinctly) in step 18 of Operation DX.100-2 in Manual 518.

A DX engine would be right for a Ds21 made before August 68. After that more powerful DX2 engines were fitted to D@21s. A DY engine is correct for a pre August 1968 DS19 (1985cc). After that, Ds19s were fitted with a more powerful DY2.

here is a link for the release bearing clip where the clutch fork doesn’t have holes for little ‘C’ clips.

https://shop.citroenclassics.co.uk/thrust-bearing-retaining-clip-1519-p.asp

[Paul Burridge]

My engine’s just gone back in and the car’s not on the road – so i can’t talk about 123 use in depth, however there are other mechanical factors that can affect throttle response.

Is the pedal free to move – not stuck on carpet or gummed up with rust and grease? is the linkage between pedal and carb unobstructucted? Is the linkage aligned – so that the horizontal shaft to the carb turns freely? Is the brass and rubber bush that holds the back end of the horizontal rod in good condone, or has it sagged – shaking the shaft out of alignment? Are the two springs on the vertical shaft both still in place? Are they set to the correct tension? Check and eliminate these set up factors first.

Throttle set up can be found at Operation D.142-0, which is early in volume 1 of manual 814 (just after the bvh set up section i think).

Coming at this from another angle, how did you fit the 123? Did you go through the full process of finding the timing mark on your engine, finding the green LED light on the 123 etc? have you set the engine advance? Checked the plug gaps? People also recommend particular coils for use with 123 (saying 123 burns out basic coils?). A Bosch blue spark 0221 119 027 coil was recommended (no longer made). 123 now sell their own recommended coil. A Beru ZS563 was another recommended coil. Citroen classics sell a coil that they would be happy for you to use with 123.

I think your exploration of 123 started because you had performance problems to start with and felt the engine was quite tired. The problems you have may be underlying problems – perhaps with the carb or the engine, or with both??

[Paul Burridge]

The rear ones are proving very difficult to clean up – even with an angle grinder. I’ve therefore resorted to electrolysis to (hopefully) finish the job. The bit you can see in the tub is the sacrificial anode – not the shield 🙂

[Paul Burridge]

Hi
The screw-in brass carb nozzles were originally made by a guy in Oz (or maybe two guys?). I wrote about the problem and the fix on my blog.

https://ds-restoration.blogspot.com/2015/11/carburettor-inlet-fire-safety-draft.html

Anyway, the nozzles (and kit to fix them) can now be bought from Darrin at Citroen Classics.

Note in his earlier post Peter’s comment about putting brass ferrules inside the cut ends of your fuel pipe, so that you can clamp any joint sections of rubber hose securely and without leaks.

here is a diagram showing the construction of a DS sill and the outer ‘closing plate’ that forms a convenient space for stuffing stuff like this. There are other things in there – not least the fuel pipe – but as Peter’s photo shows, still room for a pump.

[Paul Burridge]

Hi
I’ve bought 123 for my car but am still rebuilding it. Others may have more direct and relevant experience but, from what you’ve described, there could be a number of issues all combining to give you less than satisfactory performance. Fix one (123) and there may not be a noticeable improvement.

For you, on the plus side, fitting 123 will enable you to set it up to mimic the dizzy the engine was designed to run with. of course you also need to be confident it has the right carb.

I think 123 has the potential to give you more reliable starting and consistent running, but 123 alone will not solve a fuel evaporation problem..

Electric fuel pump. Others have fitted them and have split the fuel pipe to site them in the sill – same place as an efi car has it’s pump. To me, sill is safer than engine bay. If there is a problem, I would not want a pump squirting out fuel near a hot engine.

Paul

[Paul Burridge]

Pater – you replaced the release bearing? I thought about it but decided against it. Firstly, I couldn’t easily find a replacement bearing. Secondly i was concerned that if the replacement didn’t go back in square, it might exert uneven pressure on the three clutch fingers.

Michael – a clue as to gearbox age. Up until June 71, the thrust bearing has a little ‘eye’ on the side and this helps guide it’s movement as there is a guide pin screwed to the bell housing and the eye slots over it. Also, up until June 71, the thrust bearing is held against the clutch fork by two small ‘C’ clips on the fork fingers. After June 71 it’s held in place by a single longer spring clip that loops around the back of the fork. (And the clutch fork doesn’t have two little holes on the fingers for the redundant ‘C’ clips.)

[Paul Burridge]

Just thought… If you haven’t split the bell housing from the gearbox, you won’t be aware of the tube/ tunnel (part 6) i keep banging on about – so it can’t be the tube you are referring to? Nor will you be able to see part 5, so that can’t be it either.

I would advise against splitting bell housing and gearbox if you really don’t need to!

[Paul Burridge]

Hi. I was obsessing about your earlier comments about a suspect camshaft oil seal. i didn’t even notice you’d written ‘crankshaft’ – let alone used caps!

Crankshaft…there is no seal at the timing chain end. There is just the end bearing. If any oil gets past there, the cork seal around the timing chain cover keeps the oil where it should be. At the frond end, the crankshaft has a ‘oil slinger’ – a series of grooves/ ridges around it circumference that catch any stray oil and throws it back into the engine. Other than that, there is just a cork seal around the half-circle of the sump, where the crank lives. So where is your crankshaft leaking from? or is it the general seal around the sump?

3. the gearbox end of the input shaft apparently pushes onto a circlip (is that right Peter?) though I’ve never had the courage to tug it out, and the removed input that that I have has no obvious groove to latch into any circle….

Best tool to align the friction plate within the clutch is another input shaft. I borrowed one until I found an old worn one (read below). centring the friction plate when you bolt the clutch together just increases the likelihood of the gearbox and proper input shaft slotting straight on when you put things back together. Once it IS together, its kind of ‘self-centring’ – the input shaft (within the clutch bearing) holds the friction plate where it needs to be. You can probably get away with using something of a similar, close diameter to centre the friction plate – just get it as close as you can.

A wobbly shaft at the front end is pretty normal – but if excessive may indicate that the splines at that front end are badly worn. Quite common. darrin can probably sell you another if you are worried.

I’m not sure what you mean about release bearing having an attached tube?? The tube that the input shaft goes through has big rubber O rings at each end. The tube and it’s seals are between bell housing and gearbox and create a (dot?) tunnel for the input shaft. I think these seal the tube to prevent any gearbox oil getting back towards the clutch. See attached image.

Overfilling the gearbox. if you DO overfill the gearbox, there is a plug/ bolt on the side . let it run out of that til it stops – that’s then the right level.

4). From what I’ve read, you can’t take ’70’ on the gearbox number as having anything to do with a date. This is based on the codes on other peoples gearboxes and the ages/ dates of their car: no relationship between code and date…

DY2 engine. Those were made as 1985cc, but can be ‘upgraded’ to make them 2175cc. A ‘DY’ engine was fitted to bvh DS19s up until September 1968. the DY engine was then given more bhp and re-named a DY2. DY2s were then fitted to DS20s – including bvh cars. So having a DY2 engine is not wrong for a ‘proper’ DS – it’s just that it’s probably 1985cc and not 21 (if that is what yours originally had). Of course someone could already have converted it to 2175cc capacity…..

For what it’s worth, have you read my clutch refit blog thing? At the very least, it tells you how I went about it 9second time around). https://ds-restoration.blogspot.com/2023/06/replacing-clutchagain.html

[Paul Burridge]

They are two different colours. ‘Gris rose’ is AC136 and definitely has a pinkish hue to it. AC140 is ‘gris roue’ (WHEEL grey). If you notice, ‘rose’ and ‘roue’ have just one letter difference and are easily confused….. ‘Gris roue’ is a light to mid grey colour. No pinkish hue.

I’ve seen RAL7044 quoted as a good match for ‘gris rose’ but i think the above confusion is coming in to play and it’s actually a good match for ‘gris roue’ – AC140! Other matches for gris roue that i’ve heard about are MOTIP 07034 or Ford grey tractor paint. I can’t vouch for any of these – but if they look even slightly pinkish, then they are not AC140 gris roue.

Peter: another friend did exactly the same as you – with the same’star burst’ patterns all around his tyres 🙂

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