[Paul Burridge]

Yes. That old distributor is the right one for a 1985cc DS20. Did you set up the ‘123’ ignition to mimic the curve for that distributor?

It might be handy to see what carb and engine cc you have, so that you can be confident the 123 is set to get the best from these. In the absence of pulling the whole engine apart, i think your best bet would be to stick a cheap endoscope down one if the plug holes and see whether any marks on top of the piston help to pin the engine down as 2175cc or 1985cc. in the meantime, just enjoy driving it!

[Paul Burridge]

Blimey. Well it’s good that those numbers match as the chassis is taken to be the identity of the car. The engine number is less important. Does it look like the engine tag has been torn or cut off – rather than corroded and fallen off?

That chassis number does indeed relate to a DS20 and one of the last. It’s possible that, pre-92, someone put in a bigger engine. If so, it was probably a ‘DX2’ engine. As your car is hydraulic gear change, it’s must have a weber carb. Now, if it’s had an engine swap it might have your original Ds20 carb, or a carb associated with a 2175cc engine. I think originally your car would have had a Weber 28/36 DM1. A hydraulic DS21 would have had a Weber 28/38 DDE or 28/36 DLE. But if there has been any swapping, its possible it’s got a Ds20 carb, on a DS21 engine!

If it helps, I think a late DS20 would have had either a Ducellier 4291(b?) distributor or a SEV-Marchal A251 but, yet again, whether your car does or does not proves nothing as it could be your originally distributor pressed back into service on a 2175cc engine. I think the only way to tell what CC your engine has will be buy pulling the head off and physically measuring the cylinders. Do you have an endoscope camera thing? maybe you could remove a plug and put the camera down the hole. the markings on the top of the pistons might then tell you whether its 1985cc or 2175cc.

[Paul Burridge]

Glad you are getting some miles in.

The plot is indeed thick! Like engines, body panels are easily swapped, so even though it may have entered Holland as ‘brown’ it’s difficult to be certain that was it’s it’s original colour.

Similarly, Engine number (tag) is not a reliable indication of the actual model as engines can be swapped pretty easily. It is handy for the engine to have it’s tag as you can then be fairly sure of it’s cubic capacity. Mind you, if you bought your car as a DS20, then it’s going to be at least 1985cc – whether it has the original engine or not. The power will be determined by the inlet manifold and carburettor.

You can sometimes pin down possible colour options by confirming the year and model of the car. You’ll have to remind me: does your car have the plate up by the wiper motor that has the chassis number. There is also a number stamped into the lip of the engine bay very close by. Ideally both numbers will be the same! That number will help confirm what model your car was, but won’t tell you it’s original colour.

[Paul Burridge]

Hi
Reproduction stuff is available. I can’t vouch for the look or quality but it is sold as a direct replacement for the bits in your photo.

Dirk Sassens sell just the long pieces or a complete kit for the floor – so including the bits under the seats by the look of it.

https://ds-sassen.de/onlineshop/gb/interior-seat-set/1206-cladding-for-sill-and-side-member-set-linoleum-from-1967.html

https://ds-sassen.de/onlineshop/gb/interior-seat-set/3123-interior-paneling-linoleum-dark-gray-set-complete-non-pallas-from-1968-sedan.html

‘Der Franzose’ also sell this stuff. i’ve found the kit with just the two long pieces, but I’m not sure the link here for the full kit is the same stuff. It seems to have light grey stitched to the two long bits? Might be for an earlier car.

https://www.franzose.de/en/Citroen-DS-11CV-HY/DS/Karosserieinnenverkleidungen-Himmel-Hutablagen-Kofferraumverkleidungen/ANR38167/#gallerie

https://www.franzose.de/en/Citroen-DS-11CV-HY/DS/Karosserieinnenverkleidungen-Himmel-Hutablagen-Kofferraumverkleidungen/ANR38624/

As it gets old, this stuff gets brittle and rips. Pretty straightforward to change but you will need to remove your from seats and remove the steel and rubber trim from where the doors close.

Paul

[Paul Burridge]

That’s a good find. It’s a lot easier to change these things over with the wings off.

[Paul Burridge]

My battery is the other side but the principle is the same. Not too difficult to remove though you may have cables running through/ beneath it that need disconnecting.

[Paul Burridge]

White roof?

I’ll admit to a bit of guesswork with the carbs. Citroen workshop manual 814 says both the Special and the Super are “99CV” – which I’d taken to imply they both were the same bhp. However the John Reynolds book “Original Citroen DS” says that the Special is 99bhp and the Super is 108bhp and that these two models used a Solex or Weber carb. The Webers were usually fitted to the more powerful engines, so I’d guess that if you had a Weber yours would be a Super. Well that theories out of the window!

Your car should happily do more than 55 to 60 mph. I’d look at the usual suspects: carb/ jets, timing, low compression on one or more cylinders, anchor and anvil hanging from the boot……

[Paul Burridge]

Further thought:

Given that the range of chassis numbers covers D Specials and D Supers, it’s difficult to tell them apart. A D Special has tended to have less power than a D Super. While the two cars share the same engine, Ithink you will find that if your car has a ‘Weber’ brand carb fitted, then that’s an indicator of it being a D Super, whereas the D Special has a ‘Solex’ carb fitted.

[Paul Burridge]

Thank you Jeremy.

Where is that chassis number plate fixed? It doesn’t seem to be where i thought it would be? That might be something to do with to being destined for the Belgian market – but I’m not sure

Chassis 10FD5009 relates to a French built D Special or D Super of the 1975 model year (the last). Which fits with what you understand your car to be.

The model year went from September 74 through to end July 75 with August off for holidays. That year, the chassis numbers for those types of vehicles started at 10FD5001, so yours was one of the very, very first of that years cars built. Probably very early September 1974.

Up until 1972 a D Super would have had a DY2 engine and a D Special would have had a slightly less powerful DV3 engine. However after 72, both cars were given a DY3 engine. So a DY3 engine (as per your photo) seems to be correct for a D Special of that year.

What colour is your roof? A D Special in France would almost certainly have had a white roof when new, while the roof of a D Super was the same as the body colour. However, with your car being Belgian market, they may have had the option of ‘same as body colour.

Hope this helps
Paul

[Paul Burridge]

There was (is?) a service at the Citroen Conservatoire. For a fee, they will dig through their records and confirm the build date of your car. I know some people have only had really basic information back. I don’t know what the ‘maximum’ information is by comparison. Now i thought this service had been suspended because they had relocated, but several people have animated that they (recently) went through the process.

There is a list of Belgian-made chassis numbers in the ‘Original DS’ book, but if yours is a 1975 D Special, I think it will be French built – even if destined for the Belgian market. Belgian Ds tended to have slightly better trim/ features than their French equivalents.

If you want to post your chassis number here (plus engine type – DV, DY3 etc from the plate below the exhaust manifold), we can probably confirm what model it is, and what equipment it would have had when new. If you’ve not done so, you can check the chassis number on the metal plate screwed-on up by the wiper motor, and compare that to the number actually stamped on the chassis. You’ll find that on the inner lip of the engine bay near the o/side wiper arm if you peel back the rubber that seals against the bonnet.

[Paul Burridge]

That’s a first for me!

You can run a rev counter direct from the alternator I think – but that only tells you the engine speed pre-gear selection. I guess a gadget like this – driven after the gearbox is an indicator of road speed. In electronic form?

Does the car look like it’s been modified in any way for competition?

[Paul Burridge]

The car looks great Justin. Though, to my eyes, the front looks a little high in those photos?

Here’s a photo of the regulator and bleed screw.

[Paul Burridge]

Hi Jeremy. Welcome. Well: you’ve clearly sorted out the picture thing 🙂

Yes, you’ve got it – runners for height adjustable seats. I think my pallas has just one for the driver. Can’t remember now as they are all pulled out.

There might be some interest but you need the appropriate seats and runners to go with these. I think there is a square runner frame that clips into these, and then th seat is fitted to the runner part.

Do the seats in your car just have the standard runners? I would expect so for a D Special. Could be that the previous owner acquired those adjusters hoping to fit them then discovered that they needed other seat parts.

Paul

[Paul Burridge]

Well done Jeremy. I took mine partly apart and cleaned it – but mine is a different deign by the looks of it. The wound piece is straight. As my instrument panel is also out, I tested the sender off the car and it was very erratic. After a bit of head scratching I worked out that as well as connecting the earthing wire of the sender to the negative side of my supply, I also had to earth the metal body of my instrument unit that held the gauge. Not sure if that would be the same for cars with the later three dial plastic units. Anyway, after i’d twigged that, it all worked fine.

Is your float still a piece of cork? they do get fuel-logged and heavy. I bought a cheap (£3) sender from Ebay – just for the plastic float.

[Paul Burridge]

I followed (in my Yaris at the moment) my mates Black D Secial back from the GS/A meeting down in Hampshire a few weeks ago. I loved looking at it’s lines from outside the car and was particularly taken by the way the light hit the angle of the glass in the two doors. No other car quite like it. Sigh…..

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