[Paul Burridge]

The earlier Ds had a fuel pump with a priming lever on the side and although they are uncommon, you can also get them for later Ds. Obviously the idea is that if the cars been stored a while, you lift the bonnet and give the lever a couple of pumps to prime the carb. Cranking the engine a few times should do exactly the same thing….

A friend of mine bought one of the pumps from America at great expense, but I’ve also seen them on sale from one of the European suppliers at a worthwhile cost saving.

[Paul Burridge]

If it’s clicking in frequently, it’s because it isn’t able to maintain pressure. Could be that worn components are leaking pressure back to the big reservoir (steering rack is the main culprit there) or it could nmean the accumulator sphere on the regulator is flattish and it could be that you have an air leak to the pump so that it is not pumping effectively.

[Paul Burridge]

Is it the steel outer domed case that is leaking, or the aluminium body with the big ‘O’ ring that the domes is pressed on to? If it’s the dome, then it should be possible to weld that (with it removed and all traces of LHM removed)

The aluminium parts can stress and crack. Not heard of anyone welding ones they are a precision made part that is effectively part of the pumping action. there are several sources of steel replacement parts – but that means stripping the whole thing as per my blog.

Darrin in the UK sells steel ones or cheaper aluminium ones. If your on the Continent, places like Franzose also feel them:

https://www.franzose.de/en/Citroen-DS-11CV-HY/DS/Hydraulik/ANR31221/

A refurbished pump is about £300 plus.

[Paul Burridge]

It’s easy to pull off that padded trim as it’s held in place with spring gaps, but as a little air can circulate behind, you probably won’t find much rust. the troublesome area is under the seal and behind the outer roof trim. yo won’t know what you have to deal with until you pull the roof off.

it sounds as though your fix will keep you going until you decide to replace the roof. Make that a time when you’ve budgeted for any surprise you might find. You might be lucky with localised rot, or may need more work done. you wouldn’t be the first if so.

[Paul Burridge]

Hi
The rubber bit in your link is for non-Pallas cars. As you have identified, pallas carls have a plastic or card bit, covered in foam backed lining material. It’s probably got a load of sharp rusty pins on the back, the idea being that the fabric is pulled around tighter and pierced over the pins – which are then bent like staples.

Do you have the old bits to use as templates? A specialist trimmer will be able to source the fabric no problem. because of the curve, you may need to buy a metre or two. the half at the back is similar and you can either get someone to stitch three straight bits together, or buy a big bit and cut a curved bit out.

Michael Faulks in Oz (also in the facebook group) has just done this – templates. if you join ‘aussiefrogs’ you can read about it here.Go to post no.162

https://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/index.php?threads/resurrecting-a-goddess-twice.134900/page-9

In the meantime here are a couple of his photos.

[Paul Burridge]

For some reason, it just doesn’t seem possible to get paint mixed using the ‘AC’ codes anymore. I think the best you will get is the nearest available colour that IS available – a RAL code or similar – matched by eye in whatever shop you go to. I’m really surprised that us Citroen lot can’t come up with a definitive list of the equivalent codes for the small number of colours we regularly need:

Gris rose
Gris roue
green for the spheres
green for the engine block
green for the water pump pulley
‘brown bits’
a colour to tidy up the light buckets

I got around your problem:
https://ds-restoration.blogspot.com/2017/10/laurette-air-cleaner-refurb.html

[Paul Burridge]

EDIT: the colour code for ‘gris roue’ is AC140. Not ‘AC135’……………..

Do you mean the flat round style with a trumpet sticking out of it? As opposed the the cylindrical shape? On a carb car, it would have been ‘Gris Rose’ AC136 -so a RAL colour that is equivalent AND/ BUT, some argue that the grey filters are actually ‘Gris Roue’ (wheel grey) as used on Ds for, you guessed it – wheels. That colour is AC 135.

It is possible that earlier filter housings were 136 but the colour changed to 135. I don’t know. Sorry

[Paul Burridge]

I Don’t know if there is a definitive look up table that easily converts old Citroen ‘AC’ colours into ‘RAL’ equivalents. Hopefully a good paint/ powder supplier will have one?

Do you mean the flat round style with a trumpet sticking out of it? As opposed the the cylindrical shape? On a carb car, it would have been ‘Gris Rose’ AC136 -so a RAL colour that is equivalent AND/ BUT, some argue that the grey filters are actually ‘Gris Roue’ (wheel grey) as used on Ds for, you guessed it – wheels. That colour is AC 135.

It is possible that earlier filter housings were 136 but the colour changed to 135. I don’t know. Sorry

[Paul Burridge]

Hi David
I live in Bedford 🙂

My car is a 68 semi-auto, so I might only be interested in some of your loose parts rather than the D Special itself, but I can give an opinion on the chassis and may be help you craft some word for Facebook that I can put up for you, with photos and your phone number?

Shame to think we have both been in Bedford and never talked DS. Does this mean you are moving on from Ds, or do you have another waiting in the wings?

Paul

[Paul Burridge]

Hi David. Sorry to hear that your D Special has succumbed. If you’ve not already done so, you can put an advert in the classified area here – and i think that also then finds itself into the printed Citroenian magazine.

The Club (and D Section) also has a Facebook presence. Let people there know about the car and parts and you are bound to get some interest.

To start you off: what are some of the main bits you have and where are you – I might be interested!

Paul

[Paul Burridge]

The main thing is to enjoy the car of course. Gradually it’s secrets will be revealed. That’s half the fun of owning an old classic.

[Paul Burridge]

Curses! Just did a bit of research…… A Weber 28/36 DLE was fitted to hydraulic DS21s from October 68 onwards BUT the Weber 28/36 DLE2 was the carb fitted to early DS20s (from October 68). I’m pretty sure that later Ds20s had a Weber 28/36 DM1. Sorry!

[Paul Burridge]

Ah……

From earlier post “Now, if it’s had an engine swap it might have your original Ds20 carb, or a carb associated with a 2175cc engine. I think originally your car would have had a Weber 28/36 DM1. A hydraulic DS21 would have had a Weber 28/38 DDE or 28/36 DLE. But if there has been any swapping, its possible it’s got a Ds20 carb, on a DS21 engine!”

The fact that it’s got a ‘DLE’ adds to the body of evidence that it’s a 2175cc engine – though of course carbs can be swapped…. The odd thing is that the distributor was a DS20 one – not a 21 – but when I got my Ds21, I discovered it had the wrong dizzy, so you would not be alone in finding that.

[Paul Burridge]

I’ve looked for further obvious/ external differences between the engines of a Ds20 and a DS21, but can find nothing that could not be swapped to confuse or muddle things. Sorry.

My current thinking is to assume that it does have a Ds21 engine as the paper work and exhaust manifold suggests, and that someone has removed the engine tag at some point of sale as the code on it contradicted your boot badge? Though if the Dutch paperwork already states it’s a 2175cc engine – why remove that tag for reasons of disguising that fact ???

If you want to optimise car performance – as it seems you do – it would be good for you to know one way or the other so you know how to set up the 123 ignition. If the engine is 2175cc but the carb is for a Ds20, then it’s difficult to decide whether it’s best for the 123 to be set as though it’s a 21 or it’s a 20. If it was me, i would experiment with settings for both scenarios and simply decide which i felt caused the car to perform’ better’.

[Paul Burridge]

Hi Paul,

thanks for your replies and photos = they’re really useful.
The exhaust manifolds i have are in two separate sections and look the same as yours although much less sparkly.

So, does this mean I have a DS 21 engine in a DS20?!

Might be a good indication, but unfortunately it’s not that easy Justin!

A DS20 is essentially 1985cc. However during an engine rebuild, it’s simple to upgrade it to 2175cc capacity by putting in the appropriate pistons and liners. However if you want the engine to behave like a true 2175cc car, you would also go on to fit the appropriate carb (and throttle linkage) and inlet manifold if need be. You might also consider fitting the correct exhaust manifold for a 2175cc engine….. Alternatively, someone might simply have had a cracked DS20 manifold and replaced it with a 2175cc manifold because it was to hand…..

There might be some code marks specific to a 2175cc or 1985cc cylinder head. i will try and find out. But even then, it doesn’t mean that the pistons, liners, carb and manifold haven’t been changed.

Remind me again: Based on the chassis number stamped on the lip of the engine bay, was the car sold to you as a ‘DS20’ (as opposed to a ‘D Super’ or ‘D Special)?

[Author]

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